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smokey
27-01-2009, 04:55 PM
A quite large-ish group of us from Leeds University Canoe Club paddled the River Leven on Sunday morning, and all who paddled (apart from one girl who lost her boat - look out for this on a separate topic no doubt!) had a fantastic day by all accounts, with high levels making Backbarrow Bridge partricularly "sporting" to say the least.

At the get-out at Haverthwaite, with the van and minibus loaded we were approached by the landowner of the estate for the majority of the lower section of the Leven downstream of Backbarrow: a Mr. James <surname escapes me> but will update soon, out walking his labrador. Of course, that heart-sinking feeling was our immediate reaction, but to our surprise and extreme satisfaction, James was an extemely courteous and well-mannered chap who was keen to talk to us on developing the access situation on the river for canoeists and took our details for further discussion on how we could help in any way.

It seems James would like to end the bitter dispute between Anglers, who he regularly chats to and indeed many of his friends are fishermen; and canoeists who he believed should be able to paddle what he described as a "fantastic river for canoeing" whenever they wished, and increase parking facilities etc. to stop overcrowding. He suggested he'd like to play a big role in developing a firm access agreement for the river.

He did seem however to be unsure on a few things:
- How access on rivers was actually brought about - is the best way for an annual fee to be paid etc.? He seemed to know little about the BCU and River Access campaign.
- Were there any other rivers in the area with similar access problems?
- He also had some knowledge, but not in great detail, of Cumbria Canoeists and the "open days" that are held throughout the year.

In our brief chat, myself and Captain Andy J attempted to steer him the right direction:
- Consider getting in touch with both BCU, River Access campaign, Cumbria Canoeists
- The nature of access for lakeland rivers in general
- Continue chatting to local and regular paddlers and collecting details (as he was doing with us) to get a feel for access, and I explained that local top level coaches and instructors can paddle this river weekly if not more, and these people are good to chat to.
Critically, we were extremely praisworthy of his efforts to get an access agreement sorted once and for all for the Leven, and explained how refreshing it was to have such a well-mannered discussion with a supportive landowner.

The reason I am posting this is:
- If you are a regular paddler of the Leven, or indeed a coach, don't be surprised to see James keen to chat to you supportively (assuming you are not doing something silly)
- If you are involved in the access campaign DIRECTLY(!), I would urge you to attempt to get in touch with James: the landowner of the estate (again surname I have forgotten, but will update soon), because if he receives some guidance, I believe this could potentially be a big milestone for access on the Leven.
- Has anyone else chatted to James - and had similar discussions with him?

One way or the other, a great days paddling was all the better for this chat!

Matt H,
LUUCC

ned
27-01-2009, 05:36 PM
nice to hear you had a good trip. this kind of vibe has been the case for a while. most of the stakeholders on the leven are up for a positive forward looking view about the use of the river.

As this plays out, to my mind there are two principles which should not be comprimised. Firstly, 'we' should NOT PAY for 'access'. Secondly, access should not be restricted unless for a sound environmental reason.

There are so many other ways of working round this though, landowners have many costs associated with the management, there are envoronmental issues and issues with locals being distrurbed (particularly when people are off the water). A last thought from a regular user of the Leven though - if it aint broken ... dont try and fix it

smokey
28-01-2009, 02:40 PM
nice to hear you had a good trip. this kind of vibe has been the case for a while. most of the stakeholders on the leven are up for a positive forward looking view about the use of the river.

As this plays out, to my mind there are two principles which should not be comprimised. Firstly, 'we' should NOT PAY for 'access'. Secondly, access should not be restricted unless for a sound environmental reason.

There are so many other ways of working round this though, landowners have many costs associated with the management, there are envoronmental issues and issues with locals being distrurbed (particularly when people are off the water). A last thought from a regular user of the Leven though - if it aint broken ... dont try and fix it

It goes without saying that you have a better knowledge of the issues associated with the Leven than I do.

I agree, the suggestion of "payment for access" should not be on the table - the landowner merely suggested this to us, as he seemed to have little knowledge of the access situation and to him it seemed reasonable. Needless to say we pointed this out to him that this probably isnt the best course of action.

This is the exact reason I started this thread, to gauge and promote discussion of what the regular paddlers of the Leven think is the best course of action - whether it be "It aint broke, so dont fix it" as you suggested or whether James' keen idea of improving parking at Haverthwaite with a view towards improving access in general be not only welcomed, but built upon in a realistic way (if that is in fact possible?); and to ask the question is a good formal agreement (such as that on the Keswick Greta for example) better than the good informal agreement we have now?

Cheers for your comments,
Matt

ned
28-01-2009, 04:41 PM
Fair enough, there will be contacts being made behind the scenes on this one. The old model of open days is not the reality on the ground any more.

I agree that there should be co-operation over common interests, and the sooner our so called representatives canoe england stop worrying about 'access agreements' and start solving practical issues the better. I guess the reason for my reply was to sketch out those two principles only then will I buy in to being told what to do.

Personally i dont want to see formal 'access' agreements, but management understandings. for example 'dont get on here', and 'dont climb over this fence' 'dont touch this spawning bed at this time of year'. When 'we' stop chasing 'access' agreements we might actually be able to do something positive and maybe use some funds to help manage the rivers ecology.

I'll point out your post to the access officer on the leven.

mcsnab_2004
24-05-2009, 02:27 AM
Idealy all canoe/kayak groups should really apporach the BCU, Local clubs and Local Government to try and lobby for the same access rights as we have in Scotland for river usage, so far I have been flaberghasted at the major difference in "rules" down this way concerning access. I understand people can make a living off the water ways that pass through their lands, but at the same time, these waterways were there BEFORE these people. Freedom of access would dictate that any land that can be accessed by public right of way is eligable for public usage. My 2p gents. :o